Another willing vict... uhh, 'candidate.' ;-)
The vast majority of people, Technoids included, seem to be perpetually strapped for cash. Couple this with the fact that any field of electronics, be it computers, ham radio, or electronics in general, can be hideously expensive to maintain and you have the result that a lot of people are scared off from even looking at such a hobby.
To this attitude, I can only say one thing.
BULLFEATHERS!
I'm no different (in the 'strapped for cash' category) than most other folks. People I've invited over often ask me, once they've seen some of the gear and tools in my lab, 'How in the world did you afford all this?!'
The answer can be summed up in one word: Scrounging! The art (yes, there is an art to it) of making the rounds of stores and swap meets where used electronics and computer hardware can be found, almost always at prices way below even wholesale. Some of the examples I've been blessed enough to find are:
A Data I/O 'UniSite' universal device programmer. It can program just about any type of chip that is programmable (EPROMs, EEPROMs, PALs, GALs, etc), and is still supported by Data I/O (even if support can cost a bloody fortune!). Original sale price was around $24,000.
My total investment: About $700 in 1995 with the memory upgrade. The original unit was bought from Weird Stuff Warehouse. I later sold it to another scrounger in partial trade for a newer UniSite that had the 'Mass Storage Module' (a hard drive) in it.
Total re-investment in 2002: About $900. Original price from Data I/O: At least $32,000.
A Marconi Instruments 2955R RF communications analyzer, or 'service monitor.' An excellent general-purpose instrument for working with radio equipment, both commercial and amateur.
Original cost, over $24,000. My cost, at the Radio Club of Tacoma 2002 swap meet, about $1,000.
A Tektronix DSA602A Signal Analyzer (essentially a big digital O-scope on steroids). Bandwidth up to a gigahertz, all kinds of built-in analysis and math functions. Found on Ebay for about $580, a far cry from its original $30,000+ price tag, and all it needed was a little soldering rework on the acquisition board memory banks.
A perfectly workable Tektronix 7603 oscilloscope mainframe for $1.00 (the fellow who had it didn't understand that you needed to install plug-ins for a trace to appear). Found at one of the Bay Area's electronic swap meets in 2003. A trip to the Tektronix company surplus store at their Oregon plant later netted me a much newer 7603 frame for $15.00. These same mainframes sold new in the 1970's for about $4,000.
I could write a book about the stuff I've found over the years, but I'll leave it at this: Rest assured, the entire 'Underground Economy' is very much alive and well and it can provide a rich source for some outstanding hardware and software.
Approach with caution!
Don't say I didn't warn you! The surplus market is, admittedly, not for everyone.
If you're looking for full manufacturer's warranties and extensive manufacturer-based technical support, you should be ready to pay for them at the retail level. You rarely find such backing through the swap meet circuit, due mainly to the fact that you pay a much lower purchase price from (usually) other hobbyists or "junk" dealers.
If, however, you don't mind doing some detective work where documentation or drivers may be concerned, or you just like futzing with oddball electronics, and you don't much care where they came from, or whether they'll really work in your application without modification, then embrace the scrounger within you!
Ebay vs. Swap Meets...
Although I don't much care for the chilling effect that Ebay has had on the quantity, variety, and pricing of stuff that still shows up at electronic swaps, I will say it can be a helpful resource in its own right.
Ebay will never replace a live swap meet, nor should it be expected to, but it can be part of an effective scrounging strategy. Such a strategy should include a balance of ALL available resources, online and live alike, and Ebay is no exception.
There are also online want-ad forums, such as those on Batlabs (primarily for Motorola radio gear and related test equipment). Searching such places out is one big reason why the Google search engine is your friend.
At the risk of annoying some readers, the best advice I can give anyone who wants to get serious about trading on Ebay is to become an 'auction sniper.' This is the practice of firing off a single bid for a given item during the last few seconds of an auction. If the sniper is lucky, they can walk away with the item for much less than it might otherwise have gone for, and the competing bidders have no chance to make a counterstrike.
Becoming an auction sniper is not difficult, but it absolutely requires two things: A reliable Internet connection (preferably broadband, as in DSL or a cable DSU), and a clock that is accurate to at least Stratum-2 standards. Software that synchronizes your computer clock with outside atomic sources, such as Tardis-2000, will help you to reach this standard, though a local GPS-referenced time server or standard on your own LAN will serve you better. My own unit is a TrueTime NTS-200 (bought off Ebay, no less), which is actually certified as a Stratum-1 standard.
For those who don't care to worry about being at the computer to fire off a bid at the right moment, there are a number of sniping software packages. My personal favorite is Merlin Software's Auction Magic package.
No sniping system is perfect. Anyone, auction snipers included, can and do lose their bids (it's happened to me plenty of times). You only get one chance at an auction when you choose to snipe, so be prepared to bid the absolute maximum you would pay for an item. This will give you at least some measure of protection from regular bidders and other snipers.
Electronic swap meets, also known as hamfests, attract buyers and sellers from all races, cultures, and languages. They all share one thing in common, though: They want to find a Good Deal. Exactly what that Good Deal consists of will be in a constant state of flux, but this never prevents a seller or buyer from trying to get the best price they possibly can, each according to their own value system.
Therein lies the very essence of what the 'Spirit of the Swap Meet' is all about: Haggling, or the art of negotiation between the buyer and seller for a mutually agreeable price.
Haggling has been around as long as there have been things to buy, sell, or trade. Those who master the art will rarely be disappointed in any deal that they make, but know that it is most definitely an art. It must be learned well if you don't plan to mortally offend someone, or wind up with a 'white elephant' you really didn't need.
The most important points of haggling are to know WHEN it is appropriate, know exactly WHAT you are haggling for, and know WHERE the top and bottom price points of any given item should be. I'll go into detail on these one at a time.
While almost any swap meet seller worth their salt will be open to haggling, retail environments or commercial booths are usually not. Commercial dealers are often bound by the pricing structure of their company or employer, and cannot make on-the-fly deals.
You should not, for example, expect to be able to haggle with the folks at the Icom or Kenwood booth outside of any advertised "show specials," nor can you usually haggle in a store environment like Ham Radio Outlet.
However, electronic surplus stores are often just as haggle-oriented as swap meets. Never be afraid to at least ask if pricing is flexible! The worst the seller can do is say 'No, sorry, can't do that.'
Note that there will likely be cases where you believe that the up-front asking price is perfectly fair. I've run into this a number of times at both swap meets and some surplus stores. If you feel this is the case, do not haggle about it! Simply pay for the item and be on your merry way.
Many swap meet sellers expect YOU, the buyer, to start the haggling process. I've lost count of the number of times I've asked a seller what their price is for a given item, only to be asked "What's it worth to you?" or "Make me an offer?" in return.
The key, once again, is knowledge of what you're buying. Know what the equipment is, what it can do, how it can benefit you in your application, what others have priced it at and how much time or effort buying it may save you.
It also helps to have a good idea of how rare (or not) the item is. Some equipment, such as security or access-control hardware, can most definitely be considered 'niche-market.' As such, it may not be that easy to obtain through normal retail or wholesale channels. It is not unheard of, under these conditions, to encounter pricing along the lines of "What the Market Will Bear" (which is, sometimes, not far below retail).
Finally, it is important to know how much effort you may need to put into what you're haggling for to get it to work. You may need to search for manuals or replacement parts to make the item usable, and there's always the possibility the equipment's manufacturer is out of business or got bought out.
It is, therefore, best to do some research before you hit the road. Keeping in mind the names of electronics manufacturers you're interested in, make use of your local public library, the WWW, amateur radio club members, or other hobbyists you may know. Investigate which companies are still in business, which have gone away, and which have mutated into other forms and names. Pay particular attention to industry-specific publications, such as the Electronic Engineer's Master Catalog (the EEM), the Thomas Register, and even regional phone directories.
Determining a fair price is the trickiest part of any haggle. Go too low, and you risk offending the seller to the point where they will simply tell you to buzz off. Go too high, and you could end up gaining a reputation as a gullible "easy mark," one who will pay inflated prices for all kinds of junk.
Once again, you have many research tools at hand. Look for equipment similar to what you're after online, from Ebay, used equipment dealers, and want-ad boards such as the Batlabs Wanted/For Sale listings. Ask around at ham radio clubs, or from other techies you may know, in terms of getting advice for what you're looking for and how much it's likely to go for, new and used. Take that knowledge with you, and you stand a good chance of unearthing a Most Worthy Bargain.
Be warned! Some swap meet sellers will use Ebay prices to defend what may be unjustifiably-high sale prices, not knowing one should rarely (if ever) expect to get auction pricing in a swap meet environment. If you run into such a seller, and your research leads you to believe their prices are too high, AND they insist "It's what I could get on Ebay," it may be interesting to (politely) ask them why they even bothered to come to the swap meet in the first place. ;-)
No matter how they respond to this query, if asked, it may also be in your best interest to simply thank them for their time and move on. Never take it personally! Know the swap community will vote with their collective wallets in terms of just how fair (or not) any seller's pricing is and be content with this.
If you spend any great length of time at swap meets, or in the surplus arena, you'll encounter them. The warning signs are varied and multiple: Insane prices. A high-pressure sales pitch that'd move any used-car sales type to tears of joy. Claims about the equipment's capabilities which can vary wildly from subtle misdirection to thundering lies.
The sleazeballs.
These are the people or businesses which are so greedy, or have such a horrible lack of ethics yet are so smooth about it, that you can be easily taken in by them if you're not on your guard. Even the most experienced scroungers can be taken in if the sleazer is a good enough con artist.
Some of the examples I've seen or heard of in my travels:
At a now-defunct surplus place in San Jose, CA, known then as 'A to Z Electronics,' I found a SCSI disk drive which was, for the time (1996), quite a coup to find. It was in a glass display case up front, near the register, priced at $95.00. It had one little problem, however, one which could have been easily missed if you didn't know what to look for.
One of the seals protecting the HDA chamber had been removed, and the disk platters were clearly visible through the hole.
Upon expressing justifiable concern over this point, the counter person became sullen, and suggested (none too politely) that it was time for us to leave the store. My fellow scrounger and I did so, quickly, and did our best to spread the word among the local scounging community.
A few months later, A to Z folded up and closed their doors for good. I can only assume we were not the only ones to spot the problems.
One of my best friends and fellow scroungers encountered a seller at one of the Bay Area swap meets who had an interesting-looking DLT drive. Such drives have their native and compressed capacity clearly labeled on the front panel (in this case it was 20GB native, and 40 compressed).
The seller, however, insisted that it was a 40/80 drive, and became annoyed when evidence to the contrary was presented. Said seller became more agitated when asked if the unit was even functional.
My friend moved on without another word, and warned me (and others). The drive didn't go anywhere, and the seller received justice in the form of much-reduced business.
At the same swap meet, a different seller brought out a bunch of fairly useful Tektronix plug-ins for the 7000 series oscilloscopes. However, his prices were not very good, and he was extremely resistant to haggling. Any attempt to do so seemed to bring his blood pressure up, and God help you if you asked him about the functional status of the units. "I don't know anything about them, I just sell them!" he would exclaim, in an annoyed tone.
Needless to say, this fellow was his own worst enemy. No one bought anything from him I know of, and he disappeared within three months.
If you're perceptive, knowledgeable, observant and able to keep a cool head, not even the slickest "used-car type" will be able to con you if you can look them in the eyes!
Unfortunately, online auctions afford no such opportunity. In fact, it's rare you can even talk to your seller (or buyer) on the phone. Kurt McDuffie, one of the Technoid's readers, sent me this story from March of 2004.
"My favorite candidate for eBay's most unscrupulous seller is the guy who was claiming that he couldn't test his Tektronix 7000 series plug-ins because he had no mainframe to test them in, while simultaneously claiming that he couldn't test the 7000 series mainframe he was selling because he had no plug-ins.
"The same seller usually claims that he doesn't have the knowledge or equipment to test his items, so they are sold as-is. EXCEPT, however, when he has a real gem to sell he suddenly sounds like an MSEE with an NIST cal lab to test his gear..."
This is only one example, and such incidents are not limited to sellers. I've had buyers win the bid on an item I was selling and promptly back out of the deal. One person failed to read the auction description, particularly the part that said 'As-Is, Needs Repair,' and then tried to blame me for his errors. Other buyers have won the auction, then simply disappeared into the ether(net), never to be heard from again.
Ebay also has its share of sellers who are grossly negligent or simply incompetent. Back in (2004), I won the bid for a nice Dolch portable computer. The seller was a high-school teen who was using Ebay to make extra money, and computers were a bit outside his specialty (he usually sold car parts).
I paid for this unit, plus shipping, within 24 hours of the auction's end. The shipping, unfortunately, was not so quick. It took the case going into arbitration, five E-mails, and nearly a month's time for the unit to get here. When it finally arrived, I was horrified to see that Mr. High-School Superdeal had simply placed the unit in a loose-fitting box, with no padding or packing material at all, and dropped it off (literally) with UPS.
Now for the unbelievable part: The unit still worked! Yes, despite a broken support foot, and a slightly bent frame section (both easily fixed), the unit survived. I still consider this to be nothing short of a miracle, due solely to Dolch's penchant for making rugged, drop-and-whack resistant equipment.
The best is yet to come. When I left the seller his (justifiably negative) feedback, he had the unmitigated gall to respond that I had been "impatient," and that he had used the same shipping methods he used "all the time." I guess he figures computers are as rugged as Chevy transmission parts.
There is good news, though. Ebay has a number of features that, if used properly, can practically eliminate the chance that you'll ever get cheated. Here are some of the warning signs to look for.
High positive feedback count, but mostly as a buyer: This can be a big red flag. Mr. High-School Superdeal had such a profile. There was a good starting count of positive feedback, but 98% of it was from sellers. He had done only a handful of sales and, of those, one was neutral and one other negative.
Normally, I avoid sellers with a spread like that. The only reason I went with him is because he had a better deal, at the time, on the particular computer I wanted.
In short, I chose to ignore my own advice, and I paid for it in more ways than one.
The moral of the story: Look for a good balance of positive feedback from both sellers and buyers. If a seller has a great feedback rating, and it's pretty much all from buyers, you can be pretty sure they're a safe bet. Likewise, if a buyer has good feedback from a wide variety of sellers or from a balance of both.
Inconsistency in items sold. This can, in conjunction with the feedback rating, be another red flag, and it's another one I chose to ignore where the teenager was concerned. In looking at his feedback records, just about everything he sold was used car parts. The Dolch was a surprise, and I later learned that he had violated another Ebay rule by using a friend's account to sell it.
The thing to do here is look at a few of the items the seller has moved in the past AND look at any other auctions they may be running at that moment. If, for example, they've got some electronic equipment up for grabs, but their past history shows they're selling mostly cheese straigteners, toys, household widgets or similar non-techie stuff, be careful!!! You may be stepping into a morass you will not be able to easily get out of.
If, on the other wing, they've been selling all kinds of different electronic or computer gear, and they're continuing in that theme, you can probably buy with confidence.
You have one other thing in your favor when making any deal, no matter if you're staring a swap seller in the eye or sniping on Ebay: The people who are deliberately out to cheat someone are in the minority. This is probably because most hobbies, electronics included, have an informal "grapevine" of communications among those who participate in it long enough.
To put it another way, word gets around! Those most vulnerable to shysters are rookie scroungers, especially the younger folks. With that in mind, here are some warning signs to watch for.
(A) The Big Push. If you find something you want, and the seller starts pushing it like any good used-car sales type, it should set off some alarm bells. Don't let yourself be caught up in the hype! Doing so may be exactly what the seller is counting on to move something that may be damaged or gutted beyond practical use! Keep a cool head in the face of the hype-storm, let the seller run down, and then ask in-depth questions about the item's condition.
If the answers you get do not satisfy you, do not make sense, or if your 'people sense' continues to scream 'RED ALERT!' in your head, then DO NOT BUY THE ITEM FOR ANY SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT! It's up to you to determine what 'significant' means for your circumstances, but my advice would be to (once again) thank the seller for their time and move on.
(B) The Broken Record. If you attend any swap meet on a regular basis, even annually, you will likely note a core group of 'regulars' among the sellers. This is usually a Good Thing, if said regulars are bringing out different types of equipment every time they show up. Heck, I'm a 'regular' seller myself at the annual Mike & Key Radio Club event.
You may also notice, however, some sellers bring out the same tired stuff every single time, month after month, year after year, and they never seem to sell a whole lot of it (if any). They are often characterized by a reluctance to haggle, excessive prices, and a general lack of knowledge (or, in rare cases, outright lying) about the condition and type of equipment they're trying to move.
If you notice one of these 'Broken Records,' be wary! In fact, it may be best to simply avoid them altogether. Some of them don't even seem to care if they sell anything or not, and this really makes me question why they even bother to show up.
Remember this, always. Good equipment and a good deal will ALWAYS sell themselves! Under such conditions, the seller need only supply an asking price, answer any other questions to the best of their knowledge, and conclude the sale.
It all comes back to the old saying 'Knowledge is Power.' The stronger your background knowledge of electronics, and the more you know about what you're shopping for, the better equipped you'll be to tackle any swap meet or surplus store with impunity. You don't need an engineering degree to come away with a good deal, but you will also be at a nasty disadvantage if you don't at least have some idea of what you're looking for, how much you want to pay, and how much the item you're after is really worth.
Above all else, remember these critical points:
(1), Always be polite! Remember, you're trying to reach a mutually agreeable price for something you want. Nothing more. If the seller is a complete jerk (and yes, such people do exist), then it is best to simply break things off, thank the seller for their time, and move on. Ignore any insults or comments that said seller may hurl after you! An obnoxious seller is their own worst enemy. Their attitude will very effectively drive away the very customers they came out to find.
(2), Don't be afraid to say 'no, thanks' (and come back later!) Remember, you will not always be able to reach agreement the first time, if at all. Also keep in mind many sellers have no particular desire to return home with most of what they came to get rid of.
(3), Be persistent, but not a pest. Along those same lines: If a seller has something you want, but you were unable to reach a bargain point the first time, try again as the day progresses (assuming the item in question doesn't sell to someone else). Don't make a pest of yourself, though. Check back, say, every 2-3 hours, right up until the seller is packing to leave or the swap meet closes, whichever comes first. You may end up getting lucky after all.
(4), 'People' sense and common sense go hand-in-hand. Use them! The big advantage swap meets have over Ebay is you can meet your seller face-to-face. It is therefore pretty easy to get an impression of what kind of person you're dealing with.
Also remember: No matter how much you learn, no matter how many swaps you attend, there is always the possibility you will get ripped off by an unscrupulous dealer or buy something that you think will be perfect for an application and have it turn out to be a White Elephant. This has happened to me several times, and I've been scrounging for 30+ years. Such are the risks of working the used electronics market. You should be prepared to accept them along with the good deals.
Whatever you do, DON'T be scared of used or surplus equipment just because it's a little dirty, or because it's not necessarily the latest thing on the market! Only you can decide what's right for your applications and needs, and only you can decide how you're going to implement them, but surplus gear can really save you some serious bucks if you're careful. 'Latest' is not always the 'greatest.'
The best way to avoid a costly mistake is to go with a friend or mentor who is already an experienced scrounger; someone who knows the ropes of swaps and surplus stores right along with the equipment. Amateur ('ham') radio or computer clubs are a great place to find such friends.
The risks and rewards of scrounging can be equally great. Many others have already been wildly successful at the game, and so can you! Make good use of both Ebay and live events, and you will likely never lack for what you're after.
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati! (Red Green, aka Steve Smith)
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